CRN.Info and Analysis

Friends,

Good news for all you struggling preachers who are fast approaching this Sunday’s sermon deadline: Slice of Laodicea now offers sermon outlines! That’s right. This week’s feature sermon is from…The Teletubbies. But seriously, Ingrid–who has herself preached many sermons directly from God’s word and never once used an I-L-L-U-S-T-R-A-T-I-O-N–is actually criticizing those who would dare to use movies as illustrations in sermons or to make a larger point about living or Scripture. Certainly, if the Apostle Paul were living today and dared to quote from pagan poets he would be on Ingrid’s list of heretics who deserve to burn in the fires of IHOP.

Yet on May 18, 2008, (I think it is fair to cite this because White Horse Inn that day was recorded before a ‘live studio audience’; may as well have been church!) Michael Horton began an episode of the White Horse Inn with an I-L-L-U-S-T-R-A-T-I-O-N from the Tom Cruise movie Risky Business and do you know what we heard from Ingrid? Just like when Chris Rosebroughused a filthy joke from Bill Cosby to I-L-L-U-S-T-R-A-T-E a point at one of his blogs and we heard zip from Ingrid. Is it fair, here at CRN.info, to call a spade a spade and point out that Ingrid is simply hypocritical and only applies her standards to those she wants to apply them too which is more often than not those she simply doesn’t like? I hope that is not too mean or anything. Where is the fairness, Mrs Schleuter?

I suspect that Mrs Schleuter has never read from the prophert Ezekiel. That was one crazy preacher! Have you ever noticed how the Lord commanded Ezekiel to get his point across? He had to play with blocks of clay (4), shave his head (5), eat a scroll (3), preach to mountains (6), pack his belongings and dig through a wall (12), and preach to a valley of dead bones (37) among other things. How about the prophet Hosea? He had to marry a prostitute to get the Lord’s point across! As much as I am a fan of sound expository preaching, those who do not do it should not tell those who do the best way to get it done. I will give anyone $10.00 if they can demonstrate from Scripture where the Lord prohibits the use of films in preaching (and it must be specific, such as ‘thou shall not…’).

Quodlibet…Mrs Schleuter has also revamped her blog SOL. Said the affable one:

Laodicea isn’t pretty but there’s no reason that this website has to be dark as well….Everything is here on the new Slice, no big changes except for the look.

No real surprise, now is there? Isn’t it ironic that Mrs Schleuter’s two new designs, one for Slice and the other for her Slicecast both feature fruit?

jerry

Oh the burden it must be to carry the duty of accuser. Ken in his on going campaign to establish himself as the purveyor of all things right continues to make the assumption that Ray Comfort needs his assistance. In his latest missive, No, Ray Comfort the issue is not closed, Ken let’s us know what a mistake it was for Way of the Master to not listen to him.

At first glance this would appear to be on target concerning the “issue” Comfort has now decided to close. The problem is that Comfort doesn’t get to close the issue because he isn’t the one who opened it. Unfortunately I did. Sadly, in my efforts to be a help privately CHRIS’ NOTE (accept for posting the whole dialog online) behind the scenes Ray Comfort’s personal assistant Mark Spence would later publicly attempt to impugn my motives and in the process let me know that WOTM wrongly assumed I was some “heresy hunter” looking for dirt with which to shoot down Ray Comfort. And that now turns out to be critical mistake on their part. (emphasis mine)

It all kinda reminds me of this story:

When Sanballat heard that we were rebuilding the wall, he became angry and was greatly incensed. He ridiculed the Jews, and in the presence of his associates and the army of Samaria, he said, “What are those feeble Jews doing? Will they restore their wall? Will they offer sacrifices? Will they finish in a day? Can they bring the stones back to life from those heaps of rubble—burned as they are?”

Tobiah the Ammonite, who was at his side, said, “What they are building—if even a fox climbed up on it, he would break down their wall of stones!”

Hear us, O our God, for we are despised. Turn their insults back on their own heads. Give them over as plunder in a land of captivity. Do not cover up their guilt or blot out their sins from your sight, for they have thrown insults in the face of the builders.

So we rebuilt the wall till all of it reached half its height, for the people worked with all their heart.

But when Sanballat, Tobiah, the Arabs, the Ammonites and the men of Ashdod heard that the repairs to Jerusalem’s walls had gone ahead and that the gaps were being closed, they were very angry. They all plotted together to come and fight against Jerusalem and stir up trouble against it. (emphasis mine)

Recently I told someone “I’m always suspect of anyone who starts a sentence with ‘The Lord told me that YOU need..’ ” Not that I don’t believe the Lord gives people insight into situations its that those phrases usually end after a tongue lashing and some variant of “As a sister/brother in the Lord” or “I really care about you”. Or as Ken puts it in his admonishment to Ray Comfort.

And as you read this once again consider that Comfort is using the same type of rhetoric he often uses in his WOTM presentation upon his sister in Christ who wrote him with a legitimate concern because she cares about him: (emphasis mine)

Friends,

Good morning! It is a glorious Wednesday morning here in Northeast Ohio. My wife and I woke up early this morning–well, I did anyhow. I walked to the bathroom and washed my face and then down the stairs from my bedroom where I would meet with the Lord in prayer and Scripture. What I learned this morning is that the Lord was already speaking in His Word and that He was waiting on me to listen. Surprisingly, and much to my dismay, the the Lord got along quite well without me while I slept.

I want to begin this rather short post by first reminding everyone to continue praying for Jim Bublitz, Mrs Schleuter, and Pastor Silva among others. I did that very thing this morning and also remembered Pastorboy and Samuel Guzman (the nice young man from Reformata and Always Ready). I also prayed for CRN.info and asked the Lord to help me understand how the prophet Isaiah used the word ‘justice’ (KJV, ‘judgment’) in his preaching. Finally, while reading a small book Disciplined by Grace by J F Strombeck, I was reminded that

“Grace, then, is God’s provision to bring into being, sustain, and perfect His new creation in Christ Jesus. It is the operation of his infinite love on behalf of such as are worthy of everlasting punishment. This outpouring of God’s infinite love is possible only because Jesus Christ, by his death, fully satisfied the demands of God’s justice. As grace came by Jesus Christ, only those who receive Him are under grace.” (19)

Now, on to other issues, not nearly as important, but equally confounding.

I have been following rather closely the posts made by Mrs Schleuter at SOL concerning the so-called ‘Word of Faith’ at the inspiring excellence conference in Tinley Park, Illinois. I was actually rather surprised that Mrs Schleuter would attend such a conference after so roundly rejecting the invitation to attend a conference by Rick Warren. But I’ll leave that alone for now.

Actually, in my estimation, Mrs Schleuter has nailed it down with her latest post on John Avanzini. Those ‘preachers’ are hucksters and it is good that someone is pointing this out to people. Sadly, no one is taking steps to point it out to the people who are actually being taken in by these hucksters and I was a bit dismayed that at the end of her rather well written essay that she actually offered a link back to the Family Harvest Church so that her readers could implicitly support the Word of Faith movement by buying CD copies of the conference speakers. Hmmm. But I’ll leave that alone for now.

Here’s the point of my morning conversation with you. It seems there is a very low threshold of tolerance for orthodoxy when it comes to certain ODM’s. Do you know what I mean? I fully grant that Mrs Schleuter and others are dead on when it comes to ‘word of faith’ ‘preachers’ because it is so patently obvious that those preachers are not preachers of the Gospel at all. Frankly, my sons could make those sorts of discernments and judgments. What gets me is that, at Slice for example, everyone gets lumped into the same category. I wonder then if I can trust the discernment of Mrs Schleuter when, for example, the same criticisms that are leveled against Mike Murdoch and Robb Thompson are leveled against Rick Warren or Rob Bell or Ray Comfort or Doug Pagitt or (insert name of favorite Slice heretic).

Seriously. Is  it really so easy to lump together a World Harvest Church and a Granger Community Church? Is it really so easy to lump together all things Emergent with all things Word of Faith? Is it really so easy to lump together all things Name and Claim It with all things Purpose Driven? Is it really, gulp, so easy to lump together all things Health and Wealth with all things Roman Catholic? Do you see my point which is that if you are outside that small, narrow, myopic, Spurgeon, Edwards, Washer, MacArthur, Piper worldview then you are automatically outside of the possibility of God’s grace? Is it really so easy for people to dismiss the large majority of Christians on the planet just because they don’t see things exactly the way ‘you’ do? Is it really so easy to dismiss what the grace of God might be doing in the lives of others? Is it really so easy to sit back and make such judgments about people for whom Christ died?

I come from a church that has traditionally been a part of a movement called the “Restoration Movement” (even though for a good part of my life I was Methodist). You know what the hardest aspect of being in a Restoration Movement church has been? Allowing God to remove the mindset from my heart that believed I belonged to THE ONE TRUE CHURCH, that ‘our’ way was the only way, that ‘we’ had all the right doctrines and that if anyone didn’t belong to the Restoration Movement then they were simply lost. It was my job, so the mindset goes, to convert the heretic Baptist, the recalcitrant Lutheran, the wayward Methodist and to avoid the hypocritical Catholic and so on and so forth. What I learned a few years back was this: It is not my job to convert anyone (Thank God!). Rather it is the job of the Spirit to convert the heretic jerry, the recalcitrant jerry, the wayward jerry, the hypocritical jerry and so on and so forth. Ironically, one of the ways the Lord has done this is by putting me in communities where there are very few Restoration Movement preachers. My first preaching ministry in Brandywine, WV was in a town of 500 that had 6 or 7 churches: Lutheran, Methodist, Baptist, Brethren, etc. (There was even a female preacher in the next town over. That took a while too, but that’s another story.)  In my current location, there are other Restoration preachers, but my two best friends here are an Anglican priest and a retired Pentecostal Methodist. Both decidedly saved by the grace of God, and both ridiculously sold out for Jesus Christ. Isolation from same feathered birds has taught me about grace.

A lot of this is about maturity and growing up and taking Doctrine of Grace (TTH 560 at CCU). The thing is, God’s grace is evident and present in all sorts of places and ways. This is why, for example, there are 4 Gospel accounts (Matthew, Mark, Luke, & John) instead of one; we get the complete picture by seeing four views. This is why there were 12 apostles (or 13). You can’t tell me that Matthew the Tax Collector always got along well with Simon the Zealot! But, from 12 points of view, He gains a more complete mission. Matthew could minister to a group of people that the Simon could not and vice versa. Likewise with Paul, the Pharisee! It’s not that they shared everything in common, but that they held One Person in common: Jesus Christ. Ironically, in the Gospel, Paul wrote this: “There is one body and one Spirit–just as you were called to one hope when you were called–one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it.” What he didn’t say is this: There is one opinion; one point of view. Here I tread carefully because this can be taken too far to the extreme. Some things are purposely ambiguous; we have to learn to live there.

This is true also of the ongoing efforts between churches of Christ a Capella and not a Capella to forge some sort of unity. In reality, all that needs to happen is for Christians to acknowledge the unity that already exists by virtue of the grace of God. As it is, two different congregations can reach two different groups of people: One that prefers musical instruments and one that does not. That’s just one (post) modern example. Fact is, I would have a hard time worshiping in a place like Granger on a regular basis and I would probably be left unsatisfied listening to Rob Bell every week. To me it (Granger) would be like Church camp every Sunday. I am much more comfortable in my tradition. But that doesn’t mean Granger is wrong or outside of God’s grace any more than it means John MacArthur’s church is right or has an inside track on God’s grace. It means they are different while being the same. It means that God has created them with red and yellow feathers and he has created me with blue and white feathers and still others have been made with red and green feathers. It means that where Christ is King, we are all different and yet all the same.

In conclusion, I will say this: If Mrs Schleuter or Pastor  Silva are right about WOF, this does not necessarily guarantee they are right about everything. And the problem is that they hold to a monochromatic view of God’s grace: all they see is Crows and not Birds of Paradise, Goldfinches, Parrots, Peacocks, etc. The God of Creation, however, made flowers, and animals, and a thousand different kinds of birds and trees and fish. So creative is He, so fascinated with diversity, that no two of us have the same fingerprint profile. He didn’t make one, but many; and yet many are also one. A fascinating picture of this is in Revelation 7 where from God’s perspective there are 144,000 Jews and from John’s perspective there is a great multitude from every nation, tribe, people, and language. One; yet many. The same; yet different. 

What I’m asking for is more discernment in the way we discern. It is not right to lump all people together the way certain ODM’s do. And the sooner clearer distinctions are made, the better. Does this mean every single Emergent church pastor is among the wheat or sheep? Nope. But neither does it mean that every single Spurgeon toting, Washer quoting Reformed church pastor is either. What it means is that every single one of us is dependent upon the grace of God. What I am asking, pleading for, is that grace find a way to insinuate itself into the online discernment ministries and conversations. As I said in a reply yesterday, God could have given us straight-forward Levitical law type instructions about the church. But he did not. Some things He left purposely ambiguous and sometimes I expect He did so precisely because He wants to see just how much we really love one another and how much we love Him. Or maybe He has a sense of humor and likes to see us trip all over ourselves in our efforts to ‘Lord it over’ one another while Jesus remains enthroned at His Right Hand.

Soli Deo Gloria!

jerry

PS–Poor Ray Comfort. The man cannot win for losing. Everyone is on his back now and all he really wants to do is love God and people and share the Kirk.

Jim Bublitz, from Old Truth has struggled with health issues in the past. Now it seems things are getting worse. While we disagree with him on many profound issues, that doesn’t change the fact that he’s our brother.

He has recently had to quit blogging because his health is so bad.

Please pray for him, and don’t forget his family.

Friends,

I wanted my first post here at CRN.info to be a spectacular essay–and it will be–but in the meantime this has been bugging me lately. I am hesitant to write this because I don’t want to be perceived–oh, whatever, perceive away. I am happy to be writing for CRN.info and help these brave souls share the grace and love of Christ.

First, at a happy blog I sometimes visit, Always Ready, I came across this lamentby blogger Samuel Guzman, sometimes guest blogger at Slice and proprietor of the amazingly special Reformata. He wrote:

Thank you, John Piper, for articulating what has been on my heart so often recently. Why is their so little love of God and zeal for the truth among young people today? Let’s get over emotional buzzes and realize that God deserves our everything…not just a trip to a hip youth conference with a famous speaker. He deserves more than a t-shirt or bumper sticker or a week long “missions” trip to some exotic location.

I can’t believe that’s what he actually believes! Is this guy living under a rock? Last week, at Junior High camp, I had four kids from Kentucky Christian University helping me. You know these four uncommitted, un-zealous young people gave up their entire summer to travel for the college, sleep in rustic cabins, eat camp food, live on the road, travel across several states preaching, teaching, leading music, praying, playing games, sharing the love of Christ with other young people who give up a week of their lives to be at Church camp? My own son gave up a week of Boy Scout camp in New York to be at church camp! Samuel, what young people are you talking about?

As I will demonstrate in my first real post it is not young people who lack zeal and love for God or truth, but actually there is an entire generation missing from the church. It’s not young people who are ripping the church apart by abandoning orthodoxy. It’s not young people who are missing the point of ‘I desire mercy not sacrifice.’

I do agree with one part of Guzman’s post: God does deserve more than a conference, or t-shirt, or bumper sticker, or week long missions trip. Perhaps the esteemed Rev Guzman also agrees that God deserves more than a blog that does little more than rip apart the body of Christ, cut down the people among whom God has chosen to live, and a little better than the sentimental emotionalism, borderline narcissistic preaching of a Paul Washer. (Although, when I pointed this out at my own blog, I was reminded that Paul Washer also once did ‘missions’ work among Gypsies. So I guess missions work is valid as long as you are in the right camp and in the right ‘exotic’ location.) Guzman’s statements are simply full of, uh–what’s a charitable way of saying this?–stupidity? Where did anyone ever suggest that t-shirt Christianity was enough? OH, but handing out CD’s is a profoundly effective way of ‘reaching the lost’ (that way we don’t have to actually talk to them and hear their story.) I have heard, in recent days, that many hungry and naked and dying people have found new life, and new hope–not to mention clothing, food, and medicine–in compact disks (but not in Blue Rays; sorry.) This is especially helpful when the poor, downtrodden, hungry, and sick have tons of money to throw away on new compact disk players.**

I’m sorry about that ’stupidity’ thing. I should have used a different adjective like meaningless, or absurd, or apples and oranges, or strawman. Yes, that’s it.

On the other hand, I also came across this post at Reformed Voices a week or so ago:

“You see young men listen to me, there is a reformation going on in this country. There is a real reformation. I’m not talking about the church growth six flags over Jesus entertainment type of reformation or revival. I’m not talking about the media charismatic type of revival. But I travel all over this country, I travel all over the world, I visit many universities and I am seeing quite an amazing thing, that even in secular universities when I go there to speak, I see 100-150 young men and women reading Edwards and Spurgeon and more importantly the Apostle Paul and reading him rightly.

There is a reformation occurring. And God has done it, and He will do it.” (Paul Washer, in a sermon called Regeneration and Self-Denial.)

Well, aside from the inherent Washer worship, I guess there is much to be thankful for in this quote. 100-150 people reading Spurgeon and Edwards has to be a boon for the church at some level. The problem is, Washer and Piper (Guzman is referencing thoughts by Piper) seem to be at odds. Washer seems to think that libraries full of eggheads reading Spurgeon and Edwards is equivalent to a Day of Pentecost type of revival or a 95 Theses sort of reformation; Piper seems to think that all the young people are going to hell in a hand-basket because they are so unloving, uncommitted, and anti-everything high church, Calvinist, orthodoxy and that the church is suffering because they are ‘no where to be found.’ Fellas, fellas! Which is it? Are we in the midst of revival or not? Are young people getting it or not? Why can’t you even agree on what God is and is not doing?

I am sorry about that ‘egghead’ thing. I should have used an adjective like college-student-who-has-a-lot-of-reading-to-do-over-the-weekend or college-student-trying-to-avoid-a-Paul-Washer-emotionapalooza or college-student-who-has-no-social-life-at-all.

Chris Rosebrough recently made an offer that he would personally pay anyone $10,000 if they can demonstrate, from the Bible, the claims of Creflo Dollar that the rich, young ruler actually went and sold his property and was, consequently, blessed by the Lord. Well, I have a little offer of my own: I will personally pay anyone $10.00 if they can find a Bible Verse demonstrating that God has promised revival or reformation to all who read Spurgeon and Edwards in college libraries. (Sorry, I don’t have as much money as Chris as I am just a pathetic young, uncommitted, Christian preacher trying to eek out a living for 5 people on under $40K a year.)

Paul Washer: Prove yourself!

Samuel and Philip, I plead with you to agree in the Lord! Come together and form a consensus on whether or not something is going on in this world of churchianity.

My point to this post is simply this: Here are two people who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. I refer to those four young people who spent a week with me and their entire summer as evidence.

jerry

*sarcasm offered free of charge. And yet, I don’t think the sarcasm is too far off point. Do you?

PS–My comments reflect only thoughts on the posted quotes. I did not watch the youtube vid posted at Always Ready nor did I read the entire sermon by Washer. I am only commenting on the responses by Guzman and Philip.

First, let me be open and honest with everyone.  More recently, I have not read the ODM sites all that much.  I really have decided that their constant negativity was just not worth worrying about.  This afternoon, though, I decided to look at CRN, and, really I am just about flabbergasted.  This has to be a new low.

It is one thing to attack pastors or authors.  It is quite another to attack a pastor’s wife.  Especially over some quite innocuous remarks she made at gathering where she was launching her book talking about the perils and pitfalls of serving in the church.  Jane Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury’s wife, said the following about serving in the church in this article:

“The Church can be a thankless employer, with poor boundaries between private and public space, vague practices about holidays and days off, laughable job descriptions and few opportunities to congratulate oneself on a job well done and completed.”

Now anyone who has served in just about any capacity in a church of any size would immediately realize the veracity of this statement.  Growing up in a pastor’s family, I would say Mrs. Williams is even being too polite.  But this is what the “Editor” over at CRN has to say:

Well, we’re guessing Jesus might ask her, “Where are the nail prints in your hands?”

OK, let me be honest again here.  I’m not a violent person, but if someone was this jerky when talking about my mother or wife, I would be seriously tempted to punch that person in the nose if I were in the same room as him.  This is just uncalled for.  It is pure, unadulterated self-righteousness.

The thing that makes the “Editor’s” self-righteousness so over the top is generally mild nature of Mrs. Williams’ statement, which can hardly be classified as whining.  If anything, her statement is an effort on her part to get those considering becoming ministers to count the cost - something Jesus Himself admonished us to do.  The fact that she is speaking to a gathering of Anglican leaders is also lost on the “editor”.  This is the very thing that is needed in the Church - an open and honest discussion about life in the Church.  What we don’t need is more people hiding behind self-righteous masks.  It is sad that there are those who think the correct response to honesty is ridicule.

Recent discussions on the Resurrection have brought to mind a song that was written by the late Mark Heard called “Treasure of the Broken Land”. Heard wrote the song shortly before his death in 1992, and it appears on his album entitled Satellite Sky.  This is one of those songs that causes an almost visceral reaction in me, as I nearly am brought to tears everytime I hear it.  Not sad tears, but tears of joy and expectation.  I believe the line, “parched earth give up your captive ones” really captures the spirit of what Paul was getting at when he wrote this passage in Romans 8:

I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.

We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

That which is dead will be made new.  We as Christians have tasted the firstfruits of the resurrection, but we are waiting for it to fully be revealed.  To this we say, “Come, Lord Jesus!”

The video:

Treasure Of The Broken Land

I see you now and then in dreams
Your voice sounds just like it used to
I know you better than I knew you then
All I can say is I love you

I thought our days were commonplace
Thought they would number in millions
Now there’s only the aftertaste
Of circumstance that can’t pass this way again

Treasure of the broken land
Parched earth, give up your captive ones
Waiting wind of Gabriel
Blow soon upon the hollow bones

I saw the city at its tortured worst
And you were outside the walls there
You were relieved of a lifelong thirst
I was dry at the fountain

I knew that you could see my shame
But you were eyeless and sparing
I awoke when you called my name
I felt the curtain tearing

Treasure of the broken land
Parched earth give up your captive ones
Waiting wind of Gabriel
Blow soon upon the hollow bones

I can melt the clock hands down
But only in my memory
Nobody gets the second chance to be the friend they meant to be

I see you now and then in dreams
Your voice sounds just like it used to
I believe I will hear it again
God how I love you

Treasure of the broken land
Parched earth give up your captive ones
Waiting wind of Gabriel
Blow soon upon the hollow bones

A streamed version of the song by Steve Taylor’s band, Chagall Guevera is available here.

I am a bit confuzzled over this hit piece against Dan Kimball over at Apprising and CRN. There are a number of inconsistencies within Mr. Silva’s accusations. Here are a few surface issues that I immediately saw. Ken Says:

O I know that Kimball’s ashamed of guys like me, whom he actually knows next to zero about

However, knowing next to zero about someone never stopped Ken Silva from writing extremely strong words against people like Kimball. Silva has probably written and published the same amount of material on the web as Kimball (and Silva’s is free), so ironically Kimball may know more about Silva than Silva does about Kimball.

Ken Says

but let it also be said that there are plenty of Christian pastors—also like me—who are sick and tired of having effete emerging ministers speak as if they are the ones who truly represent the Body of Christ.

Yet, a few paragraphs later he writes

…I still maintain that the Emerging Church movement that Kimball is an integral part of is itself not a genuine move of the Holy Spirit. Rather back in 2005 Apprising Ministries pointed out that it’s really a man-centered semi-pelagian postliberal cult operating within nearly completely apostate American evangelicalism.

Wait, Ken’s complaining about Emerging pastors thinking they are the only ones who can call the shots? He just deemed and entire part of Christianity man-centered, semi-pelagian, posliberal and a cult.

The rest of the article was a rather sad attempt to make sure that the blogosphere knew that Kimball’s was no better than his church, Connecticut River Baptist Church. Ironically, Kimball gave all the “right” answers in the Christian Post article in question. Silva rarely (if ever) questioned Kimball’s answers. It was all basically Dan making a statement and then Ken saying: Oh yeah, well our church did that too! You don’t have to be emerging to do that!

Silva kept making the assumption that Dan felt only emerging churches were giving these answers and living out the faith. The funny thing is that Kimball never made a remark that was remotely close to that. The only possible explanation that Silva gave for his reasoning was this

Whenever I hear Kimball it seems that apparently we’re all supposed to believe that this so-called “emerging generation” is a mighty special class of human beings. So special perhaps that those of us who are ministers of Jesus Christ, Who happens to be the LORD God Almighty Himself in human flesh, are no longer to boldly proclaim the Gospel of our Lord. No; for fear this might hurt their fickle feelings, instead I guess we’re to all hold hands around a campfire and ask sinners for whom Christ died how they happen to feel about this subject and that.

no proof, to text, no links … just assumptions on Mr. Silva’s part. I had the privilege of sitting down with Dan Kimball this past April in Pasadena, CA. I can tell you that he is a genuine man of faith, filled with humility and compassion for anyone he interacted with. It is a shame that the ODM community have had to stoop to such lows to find something to pin him with. If it isn’t his sweet rock-a-billy hair style, they criticize him for having the right answers and not sharing the limelight.

I attended a city council meeting this evening where one of the council men made a motion on hiring city employees and said, “This is the way it should be and if the council decides to do it differently then I am going to vote no on new hires every time from now on no matter what.”  This came from a guy who is a Christian.  Ignoring for a moment how immature this attitude is, it is sometimes the stance we try to take on certain issues (usually issues we feel strongly about).  Those issues vary depending on the person, what kind of church or background they come from, problems they are dealing with currently, etc.

I don’t care what kind of worldview you have (or what kind you think you have), as a church culture in the U.S. we have moved past “This is how it is, I’m right, you’re wrong, deal with it.”  You may not realize it yet, but the moment you take that attitude on any issue, you immediately become irrelevant, regardless of whether you are right nor not.

The reason for your immediate irrelevancy is that you have closed your ears ensuring that you will not listen to the other person, and you have shut down dialogue, ensuring no chance of either of you growing in your understanding of truth.

We’ve all done this.  We all do it.  But as a culture we have moved past this into one of communication towards growth.  This is important for ministers and teachers who can no longer say “Thus saith the Lord” and expect everybody to agree.  The ironic thing about this is that it never worked that way anyway.  Sure, people would nod their heads and accept the voice of the church as authoritative, but the people did not grow, they did not live the authority of Christ in their lives.

This is just the way it is…

*Update - I’ve included some additional information upon request.

It’s an attitude, so it can come out with any issue. Like I said, I’ve done it. For the councilman, it was the issue of new hires. For some of my family, the issue is alcohol consumption, or the observance of communion on Sunday mornings. For me right now? Not sure, that’s part of why I wrote the article to reflect on how effectively I’m helping the people I serve transform. Am I understanding what is right and wrong and then just telling people that’s the way it is and getting mad when they don’t see it? Or am I working with the Spirit of God in bringing that person into the light of Truth so that they understand and want to live it too?

Also, here is a link to a great new article by David Crowder that I think speaks to this issue.  Go check it out.